Episode 119

[Music] hey everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of Finding Peaks Yours Truly founder and CEO Chris Burns so grateful to have amazing professionals but even better humans with us today danne Ensley with reconstruction unlimited and then we have Brandon McArdle as well with reconstruction unlimited operations director yes sir got that man something that would really really fascinating and intrigue me about what you guys do is more specifically how you do it and why you do it you can go on your website and it’s a very simple website I love it because it’s simple like ours and it really speaks to the viewer um and I think what it says to the viewer is we are what you’ve been looking for this entire time each and every family system that I have the opportunity to work with believes or conceptualizes a process um of treatment and Care structure like you all create in a very very very um granular way for the clients that come into your services and so I want to chat with you guys a little bit about how you’re disrupting the industry and I think a lot of that is probably um within your why and why you got started I know we were chatting a little bit before the show and some things that you’ve seen in the industry that was missing and just want to chat a little bit about it because I’m a big fan of introducing the viewers to people that can potentially walk their loved ones in to Healing sure yeah we run a a mental health coaching agency uh we manage client care so we bring clients in and we design what we call Therapeutic ecosystems for them that means we build out systems to help them recover from whatever they’re struggling with um I was thinking about the idea of disruption and I was thinking I didn’t we didn’t really start this to disrupt we started our organization because we were we were lacking some things as professionals we weren’t getting the support that we needed to make an impact in people’s lives and I think part of our why is is that impact like how much impact can we make how much impact can we generate how much how much can we put into this to create as much radical change as possible um we came up and Brandon can speak for himself but I know I also speak for us when I say we were indoctrinated into helping people in a very particular way and I think that way was suboptimal and we weren’t given the support and strategy and the uh leadership abilities that I think our organization now gives to the people that work for us I’m very adamant about helping clients obviously I built a business a global brand to help clients I am more passionate about helping our coaches and the people that work for us like that’s really my why is I want to Foster and develop unbelievable talent and I want to give these people that work for our organization the most opportunity possible and to to build leaders out of them in the space yeah and I think I can just it’s I of course resoundingly agree with that and I think that for us um having kind of been on the ground so to speak for years um and in these you know to your point of of walking uh folks loved ones to places of healing and the family systems as a whole um I think that we were um put in environments where uh more could have been done and um we had been exposed to and I think this also again not to speak for you but I think for us we had experienced categorical revolutionary change in our lives in our personal lives based on our own therapeutic recovery based experiences and when we went to work so to speak we we didn’t necessarily see that that was offered and it to to your point about um focusing on on our work with our teams we’re a very team focused organization because any client or family system or business system that is plugged in with that and it starts at the top with Dane um the reverberating effects and the work that we do will speak through our our people right and so um there were many years in which there was no one to call there was no additional support for us there was no um and we’re when our phone rang and and still to this day when our phone rings it it can be the worst day of a person’s life right so in these very acute very turbulent very real um scenarios in which the tiniest decision or action can C you know revolutionize a uh radically change a person’s trajectory and and I know that very you know real I’m sure everyone sitting here knows from your own recovery these tiny inextricable events or that person seeing you at a time when you felt that the world that was an impossibility right I think that um we’re constant stly playing to those moments and those moments for us are are vital and and what I know to be true from doing this work for 13 or 14 years and what Daye knows to be true is that if our coaches and our staff and our case managers and interventionists and any of the treatment professionals clinicians that we work with if they’re not in a place to seize that opportunity with these clients and these family systems we’re not doing our job right and we’re we’re missing a lot and um yeah that’s that’s a big deal that just the the the emphasis on the team sure right the health and wellness of the team this is actually something that’s already speaking to me I know get a little off task here but the health and wellness of the team in the way that permeates into client culture I want to see someone sitting in front of me who’s walked that Journey sure right and that’s done it in a real intentional way and can show me spiritually mentally emotionally and yeah physically right right so I think that’s really really cool I just love the name recovery reconstructed right like we’re reconstructing something we thought was good but we’re actually learning has some tremendous gaps in it something that really speaks to me about what you guys do in particular and something that I believe to be true about the recovery process and I don’t know a lot to be true but one thing I always tell clients is I know one thing to be absolutely Paramount sure is we cannot do this alone yes and there’s something that you guys coin on your website of phrase what is that phrase we can do together what we cannot do alone yeah that’s powerful so the way through is actually together and I used to think when I started going to treatment 15 years ago I’d get shushed off to treatment my family would tell me a story like this is a you not a we sure right how do you guys combat that on your side of things how do you integrate the family system in addition to the individual and work with the family and the client it’s funny that you ask that because we’re in the process of deploying what we’re calling family coaches and we have one family coach that we’ve been working with for a time now that does incredibly good work what we noticed was we would spend so much time managing and coaching and intervening with clients and and their family to a degree but then the family would become sort of secondary and they would they don’t know that they ever got lost in the shuffle but there was less emphasis placed on the family and as you know Chris and as your organization knows and as you guys Champion your F like the family system has to be addressed and it’s not just through like a one week and 10 family thing right it the apparatus has to be built out and it has to be elongated and it has to be thorough and so we’re now as much as we can pairing families with their own coach and that coach can work hourly with a family week after week that coach can work daily with a family in person for weeks at a time months at a time even just depends on what we assess needing to be done but I think it’s an interesting place to be because I don’t know that anyone else is doing it which is cool to be able to say I think I don’t I don’t have proof of that but I think that it’s it’s pretty unique yeah and I think when we’re we’re talking about particular family systems um obviously not every every family is this way but there are many families that we work with that are um uh approaching us from a place of affluence right and um you use the Expression which I love of going the distance right and um whether reconstruction is there or not that family system is going to go the distance right this client will be a part of this family system especially if we’re talking about wealth and inheritances and trust funds and family offices and businesses Etc right um and we both know that you know when you’re when and as do you but on the ground in that space intervening in that system and seeing um the way that it operates um it’s it’s so vitally important for us to address that and put start to create a focus for sustainability for that for that future system right and um there have been many times in which look does every family system fully make the evolution to everything and whatever no but obviously that that may not be the case in every circumstance but we are constantly pushing and and that’s what I love about reconstructions what I love about our team is we we never take our kind of foot off the pedal in terms of pushing for that categorical Evolution right where we’re where we Enlightenment so to speak where we’re kind of um uh transcending our our shortcomings and our weakness old patterns these Antiquated old and traumas and and uh in you know inherited generational trauma Etc that and uh pushing for that growth and that healing because as I know I think as everybody sitting here knows when my family starts to take a step or at least a nod towards seeing and hearing me in a way um we’re now shifting a paradigm to create something new and that um that is the juice for us right that is why we’re here and so um yeah that’s it’s it’s really beautiful too I I love what you guys are doing as far as creating separate coaches for the individual and the client now when we started Peaks 10 years ago it was a both and situation so the individual therapist would work with the individual build trust Rapport do the thing then call the family and there was a disconnect there there’s a disconnect for the individual I’m s Sure for the therapist and the um integrous relationship they’re beginning to build with their client but it’s kind of a dual relationship it’s really difficult to do that and I’ve heard often times just with treatment providers in our field not doing a lot of this family work because you need to be resourced to do it you need to move into it with intention because if you don’t it can be very complex and be very draining and so how do you how do you get the families across the bridge if you will how do you get them to deal with some of these we talked about before relapses pitfalls um gaps within the recovery process skinning our knees these these things that are probably pretty synonymous with their covery process how do you get them aligned with that not only for the their loved one but potentially get them engaged with their process I mean it’s got to be a delicate dance it is a delicate dance I think one of the and again back to team focus and back to humans helping humans I think a massive portion of this for us is it’s imperative that we start to build trust on day one right and um if that trust is real and it’s founded in um in not only our lived experience and our personal lives as as people that have gone through our own recovery Journey but in the work as well and then also working with outstanding people um that in my experience surpasses any kind of superficial Judgment of um of whatever that is right and uh again back to the therapeutic ecosystem so often families don’t understand mental health right in many different ways right a part of this trust building process for us is education um and it has to be education and when smart people are educated properly and accordingly to a problem they typically fall in line with amazing Solutions right and typically in our experience that solution involves with the family work um them doing their own work and the goal and and hopefully the what we’re in the education in the trust uh we can activate this internal proactive desire for these families to start seeking this out as opposed to us needing to necessarily push continually for months or whatever the weeks or months right and that work kind of starts to be inborn out of this family and then we start to see the change and it’s one of my favorite life experiences in this field is when there’s any doubt or resistance early on and me personally I’m a middle class are lower middle class white kid from Arizona without a PhD right so to be in certain rooms with certain very successful and credential individuals talking about this and then weeks and months later when the change starts to take place now is it always perfect no but we go through our trials and tribulations and we put the work in and we start to create that beauty and when they really start to see this change that recognition in Us in in our teams of wow right and that and we start to see that and that for me that Brilliance and that kind of um these inflection points and that light turning on is really like my it’s my favorite what we do what we do is is it requires a tremendous amount of resource and we’re always looking at ways of scaling that and and like we’re in a big push right now to figure out how do we get more people to access this is is I think it’s important y uh what I believe in is if you’re paying a significant amount of money for any type of treatment especially really expensive treatment you should be getting the best and the best should be telling you no and that’s important because we work with families and we work with individuals we work with businesses where if I was that person signing that check I would want that person to say no that’s not what you’re doing no go that way if you’re spending a significant amount of money just to be yes I think it’s not the right fit you know what I mean we need more people to say no you’re wrong it’s okay yeah you’re still loved and I’m not shaming you for being wrong it’s just that you’re spending time and money on this and we’re spending time and energy and I’m not going to waste your time or money or my energy on giving you anything accept the truth that’s a big deal being boundar yeah right and then let exposing those edges early and often with the family systems it actually reminded me of an early part of my career I’m like 24 years old I’m two years into my career I’m probably you know second year in college two years sober and I go in and they they promote me into a case management position and they give me my list you know it’s $30,000 a month to be people paying $1 th000 a day sure and I’m about to call Dr Joe F shoot man what am I going to do Dr Joe but actually I have something that Dr Joe wants right um and that is family’s craving which is recovery they just don’t know it and when you introduce them to the set of keys that they have in their hand to access the building of change hope and healing those family systems are like they’re on board and they’re actually just huge Advocates they like let’s go let’s keep going in this direction yes because when smart people get great information they make changes in their lives yes they do that’s a beautiful thing I was actually reminded of that I’m like how am I going to call this guy it’s like actually he knows a lot about this thing sure but I know quite a bit about this thing right and that’s why he signed up with us so I love that I’m going to remember that too from a leadership perspective and Family’s systems perspective you know sometimes it’s okay to say know I think too I think that’s beautiful and I think absolutely agree I think too as well just as any specific individual that we’re working with right and and I know that you know this and the work that you do um it’s Central to the work that you do uh so often uh mental health dysfunction whatever shape and form that’s taken can feel like drowning right it can feel like we’re suffocating and um we can’t breathe and then so often at least in my experience these these radical um moments in my life uh a person saw me and told me to stand up and then I was no longer drowning right and I could break from myself and my subjective experience and how exist in presence right and just as every individual that we work with has to do that this family system also has to do that right and it again it may may be unpleasant for a very short period of time but that Concept in metaph metaphorically speaking of standing up and existing in presence and existing Beyond ourselves and our patterns and our systems and our uh traumas and whatever and seeing each other in a new way um it has to happen for these recovery processes to to take place and I don’t think that there’s enough emphasis and work and time and energy and resources Etc focused on that exchange process because for me um as I started to see different members of my family at different stages of my life start to have that experience with me when on their own and start to see them involved it allowed me to reorient with them in a different way and potentially expand my relationship with them in certain ways and I think that that’s necessary for the recovery process and we’re often working in these um acute bird s right and and and really pivotal times and so um yeah we’re just trying to extract as much as we can within a given time frame and again create this sustainable Way Forward based off of this fundamental learning and courage in truth yeah that’s beautiful I I really love what you guys do you guys kind of a tagline for your company should be like we just get curious we just get super curious you know and I think curiosity what what we’re missing in this field right now can we get more Curious can you ask a better question we were just sitting with pemma white earlier the way that she’s able to frame things for individuals for them to see the light instead of the darkness is really really beautiful thing one of my questions and for the viewers I think it’s really important is how long can you guys work with people indefinitely okay you know we can work with people situationally right where we’re brought on our team is brought on for a minimal amount of time you know could be days weeks months we we have a couple clients that we’ve worked with for seven or eight years okay um you know back when it was just Brandon and I coaching and there was no real organization or there was no organization to it it was we didn’t have a a framework in which we worked we didn’t have an actual business we founded I founded reconstruction in 2018 before that it was just a bit of a renegade operation um we can work with people we try not to we we develop Pathways for people but we we try not to put a box around it right we put scaffolding we’re careful about what we do and how we do it and I really like open the open-endedness of it we’re as you know recovery is a lifelong thing recovery from anything and it changes and it Transitions and it morphs and you know I I’ve got I still work with one client myself who we not working on almost anything um obvious viously recovery related we’re working on how do I treat my employees you know he runs a hedge fund in New York how do I operate with people that are my equals or or senior to me or and and what’s that experience like for him and and how does he view himself in those situ how does he treat his family and how does he treat and that’s really rewarding work and you know I don’t get necessarily into the minutia of the business dealings I just I I know what leadership is and I know what recovery is and so being able to blend those things and help a couple people that I still work with privately on those particular issues is a great reward for me because I I got to see them five six seven years ago where it was a very different scene that’s the thing and you know them you know their thing but you also know them and you know the Genesis of this of this I don’t want to say new person but this person and how they have we we crawled down in the well with you at rock bottom right and we walked out with you and now we’re here and there’s certain people that we work with that can walk on and exist in this whatever systems that we’ve created and they can and and go on and carry on and that’s beautiful and fantastic um there’s other people for me personally if I could have had the opportunity to have had even a case manager that has known me since day one and has that I don’t need to talk to every day but has know knows me it doesn’t matter what superficial external situation I’m in that person knows me very intimately they could probably predict some of the places that my ego or my whatever may take me right and not only for the accountability but just that again um that Bond because um you know we send a coach to work with a person that’s at rock bottom and they work let’s say they work for six months you’d be hardpressed to tell me other than a husband or a child or a wife or a mother or whatever that coach and that client are have a bond that is closer and more right more real than virtually any other human being yeah so um why wouldn’t I would want that you know what I mean for for um again for an indefinite it doesn’t need to be in a box it can just be what it is a client of mine from 8 10 years ago texted me the other day and said I need to go back to treatment and I said okay great so we figured it out and he said great I’m I’m just waiting for the call back from this particular treatment center on the East Coast I’m sitting in an IHOP and I said oh you’re so you’re having chocolate chip pancakes with a smiley face of whipped cream on top and he sent me a picture he said how do you know I said I know everything about you I know how many strokes it takes for you to brush your teeth I know how many steps it takes you to go buy drugs I know you know like all these things that if you’re if you live with a person and we’re talking about real change here like you’re really in it with that person it’s unbelievable what you learn about them and it’s unbelievable the levers that you can pull and the the positive manipulations you can create in that person’s life and the strategy you can Implement to create very real change and the only reason that young man is going back to treatment is because we planted some seeds right you know it’s not it wasn’t n even all my doing it just at some point we got the opportunity to work with him and I truly believe this particular individual would have probably killed himself if we didn’t have the apparatus we had around him true that’s huge yeah it’s it’s an awesome experience those relationships man now you’re speaking to my heart like I was a big 12 stepper early on I mean just the sponsor sponsy relation i’ s with these guys for three months we’d work steps and we’d have a intimate relationship now you talk about walking with someone 6 months a year 5 years seven years you guys literally get down sit next to that’s what I’m envisioning it’s like you’re in their home sitting next to them brushing their teeth lit that man how you doing today we also then work with their cousins and we work with their uncle and we work with her auntie and you know there’s family systems we work with where we’ve worked with five six seven family members on various degrees of you know on various different issues right there could be the cousin who has incredibly disruptive mental illness and there could be the cousin or the family member that just needs a little push in the right direction right and that’s I mean you’re talking about real systemic change systems wide change you you get in and manipulate a family system and it’s amazing if we can create a more conscious self-aware individuals and more conscious as a as a as a result more conscious self-aware family system um from a dollars and cents perspective what do what are we talking about right we’re talking about investment upfront and potentially throughout ultimately potentially to save fortunes for future generations of family right so um if it’s a dollars and cents issue and we know that whatever um you know again there’s just it from the from the from the successes that we’ve had it’s just it’s it’s unbelievable to watch and I I I agree with that investment and it does feel like a heavy lift on the front end sure but it’s often times like the story of you know someone coming to me yesterday and saying you wake up at 5:30 right and like yeah after 8 hours sleep for sure and what do you do I was like I get up I drink lemon water I meditate and I go run like that seemed hard and I’m like yeah it it is difficult to form that routine but it’s a much better investment now than getting cut in half at 60 and they’re telling me hey we need to put this sin in your heart to treat a symptom of a greater problem that we’re not going to help you with right right and so the same kind of thing in the investment with what you guys do like let’s make this investment on the front end so we can begin to heal right on a very foundational level yes we’re not just talking about and I love what you guys said here we’re not just talking about heroin addiction and mental health issues and we’re talking about quality of life improvements potentially and that yes which is really really cool discipline like having the discipline on the front end affords you all sorts of freedoms as thing and it could be the morning routine it could be your recovery effort I mean I am a freak about discipline like it’s I just I love it like I wake up like you wake up at the same time do the same thing and and and people say man that must be really or you be a dinner party oh man that’s oh relax freak you wake up at 5:30 you know and and and they say things like that must be hard or I could never or oh and the point of it is to be hard like recovery is hard and good it should be hard you know life is hard life is hard pain there’s pain and misery suffering and that’s part of the deal yes and to transcend that and to find ways of like accepting that and moving through it and having a relationship with pain and suffering that’s prosperous and gentle even where you you you know it’s happening and you’re feeling it but you’re not always responding in this negative way it’s a beautiful thing and it takes a lot of time and practice to your point when we start to choose when we get to a place hopefully and elevated free place where I can now choose the pain that I subject myself to there’s probably a really nice reward on the other side of whatever pain I’m putting myself through right whereas before there was no rewards right and again back to this kind of math right any intelligent person can see that right if we’ve experienced one second of freedom and presence we can understand if you’ve ever sat in a cold plunge for 4 minutes you know how amazing it is on the other side of that cold plunge right right does it suck for a minute while your body is acclimating for sure 10 12 years into cold plunge is it still brutal the first minute right but then it’s freedom in a new way and so um holding space for people to fight that to resist that to begrudgingly accept that to accept that compassionately and to start to love themselves and others through that process you know that’s that’s that’s different yeah I really love that methodology too because it leans into kind of where I got my start in recovery in a much less trauma-informed way right but it as we had talked about a little bit a lot of the treatment stuff going on 15 20 years ago was like sit down shut up do your thing well [  ] this is hard yes well life’s hard right and there’s a way you guys are doing it in this much more trauma-informed and empathetic way but really let’s not shy away from the truth right which is like this can be difficult process yeah you ready to do that and we clear as kind in that as Bern Brown would say and so I love that I there’s a piece to getting back to that little bit of uh rough and toughness to because you have to have a little bit of grit to walk through this process and people that are calling you guys or calling Peaks recovery it’s about as much courage as anybody could ever muster on planet Earth to pick up that phone so I know they’re ready for that process we just have to introduce it in an honest way sure and I found myself actually shying away from a little bit of that toughness you guys have brought it up today and in a really cool way you can still integrate that you could do both it not like a bunch of pirates and Vikings like a this is hard you’re going to mess up and fail it’s it’s just that it’s the TR it’s the truth like there’s a toughness about it and having we talk about resilience and the wellness industry talks about resilience and the recovery industry talks about resilience and the mental health Industries and the psychiatric Industries right and to experience that you need to experience it like you need to feel what it’s like to be uncomfortable and walk through it and you need to hopefully like Brandon said um put yourself have the luxury almost of putting yourself into these uncomfortable situations to see how you perform or see what experience or knowledge comes through that and it’s yeah little bit of a little bit of toughness is a nice thing you know while still being you can do both you can be gentle and tough I think and and it takes practice but you can do both and I think what you’re speaking to absolutely and I think what you’re speaking to is in my early days it was shut up and sit down we’re tough you’re not tough yet yeah after you stay around here for a very extended period of time and do everything that we tell you to do without any ounce of a fight you can then call yourself tough I the first person that resonated with me was like oh miss all of that you’re tough right now let’s go yeah back to this drowning you stand up right like I’ll I’ll drown with you stand up let’s go right and it’s the empowerment of that is so important and back to our personal experiences we both had that we both were so fortunate and grateful enough to have a person or a couple people or a group tell us hey it’s you you the power is in you right you just can’t see it or you’re not connecting to it or people have told you your whole life that you don’t have any but you do and I’ll be the one to tell you that cuz people told me that I didn’t either but I do now right and that was a decision a courageous truth-based decision that I had to confront and that was scared the [  ] out of me but when I made that decision it’s here and it’s and it’s real now and so a lot of our work is also founded in that when we’re talking about this brand of toughness or discipline it’s because that’s a Nate within the people that we’re working with right we just want to clear the wreckage out of the way enough so that they can start to experience that and then harness it right yeah and then take it to others and do that for them yeah that’s a that’s a really cool and just the intricacies of how you meet with individuals and begin to explore who and what they are and I said it multiple times just being very very curious is something that I’m really attracted to and that the viewers should be looking for when they’re out searching for places for their loved ones ask good questions ask a million questions if you ever get on the phone and they’re like you shouldn’t ask questions because I’m an expert hang up the phone you know lit it’s it’s really really cool to see opport OPP unities like this and the viewers I have never heard of a company like your guys thank you and I’ve been doing this 15 years we feel the same yeah thank you so much is there anything as far as the viewers here Colorado Nationwide I think they need to know that you’re International but website where’s your offices how do they get a hold of you got a really long URL called reconstruction unlimited.com um we’re on Instagram and all that stuff uh I think what I always tell everyone is just pick up the phone and call and that’s easier said than done but I really mean it if you pick up regardless of what kind of resource you have or what you think you want to do or you don’t want to do we again we work in an incredibly customizable way and our method is based on the intricacies of that complexity and so just chat to us like we don’t even bill for all that it’s you know we interface with our clients from day one and we don’t charge anyone a dime until we have a plan to execute oh wow we do our all of our assessments for free we do a lot of conversations for free we’ll meet with people in person for free because what we do is so comprehensive that I I just believe it’s my belief that stuff should be on the house and you shouldn’t really pay for anything until you have an actionable plan now listen that plan can change and it can morph into different things and you know sometimes with especially with crisis situation which we deal with on a on a pretty regular basis first contact with that client with that patient with that person that human M things change right and you have to Pivot and you have to be adaptable but I believe giving someone a plan or some resource is the least we can do before sending them a bill so for anyone listening just pick up go to our website there’s a number there call that number you talk to any one of us and we’ll we’ll try to find you help absolutely I think too the last thing I’ll say about that is um there are many when we’re assessing clientele and family systems Etc businesses there are many people that um I I call it like the rehab industrial complex right there’s like this machine of recovery uh you know for mental health and um that can be such a daunting landscape to even try and understand and communicate with we’re probably also communicating with this this complex at times of Crisis and need and vulnerability um it can also be very expensive and so there are many people that um and I think again it speaks to us and the work that we’ve done in our in our over these years where there are many people that don’t necessarily need the full Gauntlet of seven months in it right we can tackle this in a much more efficient and uh a quick way through kind of other interventions that don’t require a full overhaul of everything and upending a person’s entire life and so uh just as much as we’re you know uh working efficient we want to work uh with kind of best practices in mind in that way as well and um keep whatever whatever program and systems we’re creating um efficient in the true sense of what that word is right um and so that’s what I’d say about that really appreciate you guys coming on today it’s been an absolute pleasure having you guys on the show reconstruction unlimited F and you know what I I would encourage people to their point um to give them a shout free consultation you know one of the worst things that ever happened to me and people that I care about the most is starting to call 800 numbers and treatment programs and before you know it you’re on a plane to Nowhere yes and I can speak about that with a whole heart I’ve had family members that are impacted I’ve been impacted so I would encourage everybody to call a valuable resource like reconstruction unlimited thank you guys so much for you guys all right guys please check us out on where you where you get your podcast Instagram Facebook you name it iTunes uh Spotify we got it going on until next time [Music] peace